Below is an exchange on the Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy) between myself and an atheistic evolutionist that goes by the handle of Zylon.

In my previous post I had indicated that Evolution goes against the Law of Entropy.  The Universe is in every way running down, decaying, burning up, deteriorating, collapsing, wearing out, and becoming more and more disorganized.  This Law of science agrees with the Bible (Gen 3:19;  Isa 34:4; Rom 8:19-22).  All laws of science must,  because God instituted them.

However,  biological evolution requires an upward increase in order and complexity (i.e. primordial soup to living cell). This is diametrically opposed to the Law of Entropy.  The evolution would have us believe that simple inorganic compounds assembled and programmed themselves into a one cell organism, and then some how learned to reproduce it's self and began a slow process of improvements until, wallah, we have man.  This cannot be accomplished with help from humans, much less by random accident.  The teaching is similar to saying that an encyclopedia resulted from an explosion in a print shop.  It just didn't happen.  Only God can create life!

Hope this is helpful.

Blessings, John Henry
 

-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
Subject:  Evolurion vs. Creationism
From:  ZYLON (ZYLON1)
Date:  Jul-9 10:19 pm To:
JOHNHENRY7 Reply-
To: About Biology http://about.delphi.com/ab-biology/start/?msg=268.90
 

I aknowledge your post. But I must correct you on your interpretation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Entropy must increase only as an average within the entire system. There are many cases of local increases of order. When man builds a TV, for example, the relatively disordered metal and chemicals used are made more orderly by the manufacture of the TV. In nature, the creation of a snowflake from the surrounding vapor, the growth of an embryo. Evolution does not break the law of entropy, for it makes more disorder than it creates. The argument against science is made much less credible by misrepresentations of science. Zylon

============

My Dear Zylon,

You need to do more than just acknowledge my post;  you need to acknowledge the most proved SCIENTIFIC LAW there is, the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Your TV manufacturer example again proves that there must be a Creator. That TV manufacturer had to have a plan and program in addition to the materials.  Materials don’t just assemble themselves.  Things just don’t go from disorder to order without a program.

Against all logic Evolutionists must either dismiss the applicability of the Second Law to biological processes or use smoke and mirrors to try to get around this insurmountable problem .

“Every system, left to its own devices, always tends to move from order to disorder, its energy tending to be transformed into lower levels of availability (for work), ultimately becoming totally random and unavailable for work….Entropy is a measure of (1) the amount of energy unavailable for work within a system or process, and/or (2) the probability of distribution or randomness [disorder] within a system." (Timothy Wallace Thermodynamics vs. Evolutionism)

“Another way of stating the second law then is: ‘The universe is constantly getting more disorderly!’ Viewed that way, we can see the second law all about us. We have to work hard to straighten a room, but left to itself it becomes a mess again very quickly and very easily. Even if we never enter it, it becomes dusty and musty. How difficult to maintain houses, and machinery, and our bodies in perfect working order: how easy to let them deteriorate. In fact, all we have to do is nothing, and everything deteriorates, collapses, breaks down, wears out, all by itself -- and that is what the second law is all about.” (Smithsonian Institute Journal, June 1970, p. 6)

What do scientists say about this most immovable and universal Law of science?

“[A law] is more impressive the greater the simplicity of its premises, the more different are the kinds of things it relates, and the more extended its range of applicability. Therefore, the deep impression which classical thermodynamics made on me. It is the only physical theory of universal content which I am convinced, that within the framework of applicability of it basic concepts will never be overthrown.” (Albert Einstein, quoted in M. J. Klein, “Thermodynamics in Einstein’s Universe”, in Science, 157 (1967), p. 509 and in Isaac Asimov’s Book of Science and Nature Quotations, p. 76.)

“If your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics, I can give you no hope; there is nothing for [your theory] but to collapse in the deepest humiliation.” [Arthur S. Eddington, The Nature of the Physical World (1930), p. 74.]

“The second law of thermodynamics not only is a principle of wide reaching scope and application, but also is one which has never failed to satisfy the severest test of experiment. The numerous quantitative relations derived from this law have been subjected to more and more accurate experimental investigations without the detection of the slightest inaccuracy.” [G.N. Lewis and M. Randall, Thermodynamics (1961), p. 87.]

“There is thus no justification for the view, often glibly repeated, that the Second Law of Thermodynamics is only statistically true, in the sense that microscopic violations repeatedly occur, but never violations of any serious magnitude. On the contrary, no evidence has ever been presented that the Second Law breaks down under any circumstances.” [A.B. Pippard, Elements of Chemical Thermodynamics for Advanced Students of Physics (1966), p. 100.]

“...there are no known violations of the second law of thermodynamics. Ordinarily the second law is stated for isolated [closed] systems, but the second law applies equally well to open systems ... there is somehow associated with the field of far-from equilibrium phenomena the notion that the second law of thermodynamics fails for such systems. It is important to make sure that this error does not perpetuate itself.” (Dr. John Ross, Harvard scientist [evolutionist], Chemical and Engineering News, vol. 58, July 7, 1980, p. 40)

Sorry Zylon, but your snowflake and embryo examples just don’t hack it.

“The ‘order’ found in a snowflake or a crystal has nothing to do with increased information, organization or complexity, or available energy (i.e., reduced entropy). The formation of molecules or atoms into geometric patterns such as snowflakes or crystals reflects movement towards equilibriuma lower energy level, and a more stable arrangement of the molecules or atoms into simple, uniform, repeating structures with minimal complexity, and no function. These are not examples of matter forming itself into more organized or more complex structures or systems (as postulated in evolutionist theory), even though they may certainly reflect ‘order’ in the form of simple patterns.” (Timothy Wallace Thermodynamics vs. Evolutionism)

Jeffrey Wicken (an evolutionist) has no problem understanding this fact:

“‘Organized’ systems are to be carefully distinguished from ‘ordered’ systems. Neither kind of system is ‘random,’ but whereas ordered systems are generated according to simple algorithms and therefore lack complexity, organized systems must be assembled element by element according to an external ‘wiring diagram’ with a high information content ... Organization, then, is functional complexity and carries information. It is non-random by design or by selection, rather than by the a priori necessity of crystallographic ‘order.’” (Jeffrey S. Wicken, The Generation of Complexity in Evolution: A Thermodynamic and Information-Theoretical Discussion, Journal of Theoretical Biology, Vol. 77 [April 1979], p. 349)

“So, what is it that makes life possible within the earth’s biosphere, appearing to ‘violate’ the second law of thermodynamics?  The apparent increase in organized complexity (i.e., decrease in entropy) found in biological systems requires two additional factors besides an open system and an available energy supply. These are:  1) a ‘program’ (information) to direct the growth in organized complexity,   2) a mechanism for storing and converting the incoming energy.  Each living organism’s DNA contains all the code (the ‘program’ or “information”) needed to direct the process of building (or “organizing”) the organism up from seed or cell to a fully functional, mature specimen, complete with all the necessary instructions for maintaining and repairing each of its complex, organized, and integrated component systems. This process continues throughout the life of the organism, essentially building-up and maintaining the organism’s physical structure faster than natural processes (as governed by the second law) can break it down.  Living systems also have the second essential component their own built-in mechanisms for effectively converting and storing the incoming energy. Plants use photosynthesis to convert the sun’s energy into usable, storable forms (e.g., proteins), while animals use metabolism to further convert and use the stored, usable, energy from the organisms which compose their diets.  So we see that living things seem to ‘violate’ the second law because they have built-in programs (information) and energy conversion mechanisms that allow them to build up and maintain their physical structures “in spite of” the second law’s effects (which ultimately do prevail, as each organism eventually deteriorates and dies).” (Timothy Wallace Thermodynamics vs. Evolutionism)

“No matter how carefully we examine the energetics of living systems we find no evidence of defeat of thermodynamic principles.” [Harold Blum, Time’s Arrow and Evolution (1962), p. 119.]

Zylon, your argument against this universal and purely scientific Second Law in favor for the most absurd hypothesis ever passed off as science does not wash.  Evolution is anti-science.  The empirical evidence of the Second Law soundly and finally lay your silly fairy tail to rest.  All the other evidences in favor for Special Creation are just icing on the cake.  Since I have proved to you the fact that there is a Creator,  you need to be about finding out who He is and how to get right with Him.

Romans 1:18-23:  “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;  19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.”

Regards,
John Henry

-------------------------------------------------

Much of the above information is from:
Thermodynamics vs. Evolutionism
by Timothy Wallace
http://www.trueorigin.org/steiger.htm

==================================================

THE ABOVE WAS IN DIGEST #36 OF BIBLICAL WORLD VIEW:

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 21:45:54 +0700
From: John Henry <JohnBaptistHenry@hotmail.com>
To: Biblical World View <BiblicalWorldView@egroups.com>
Subject: Entropy Or Evolution?
 

To Subscribe to Biblical World View E-Zine send a message to: